tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post964709849613540995..comments2024-02-29T03:57:00.088-05:00Comments on The Mermaid's Tale: Walk this way, talk this way, roll in the hayAnne Buchananhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09212151396672651221noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-38658368335215640292014-01-03T10:47:41.817-05:002014-01-03T10:47:41.817-05:00Thanks for the thoughtful comments Elizabeth. I...Thanks for the thoughtful comments Elizabeth. I'm inclined to assume as a null hypothesis of sorts that there was a continuous spectrum of hominin variation back in Neanderthal times just as there is on Earth today and so our labeling them as a separate race and discussing their crosses or mixtures with other races is something I see both as a more complicated hypothesis to test and one that is biased by present, historically-built culture--how we humans like to divvy up and compartmentalize variation and "us" versus "them," which is less about biology than culture and is something I bet the Neanderthals loved to do too!Holly Dunsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05260104967932801186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-47066286856709620232014-01-03T10:35:17.885-05:002014-01-03T10:35:17.885-05:00A good essay--thank you.
Assuming some Neandert...A good essay--thank you. <br /><br />Assuming some Neanderthal/modern-human interbreeding, as the DNA shows, then I start thinking "At what point do the mixed-race offspring of Homo neanderthalis, HN, become enough different from HN to be considered pure H, and thus unable to contribute mate with another crossbreed to produce offspring acceptable as N? And does the lack of "purebred" HNs now mean extinction or evolution?"<br /><br />The easy assumption (which I've seen elsewhere) is that H. sapiens (HS) males mated with HN females, perhaps after "conquering" a tribe or family of HN, but given the HS proclivity to rebel against convention, some HS females, having listened to dire warnings about the neighbors, decided to find out for themselves. At any rate, you wouldn't be getting 2.9% HN SNPs in modern HS females from one chance encounter.<br /><br />Years ago, when various spec-fic writers postulated the idea of interbreeding between HS and HN, the idea was not received kindly. In fact, I remember some prominent scientist being quoted as saying, in effect, it never happened, couldn't happen, and there was and could be no evidence it ever happened. Yeah. Right. Then came DNA evidence, a lot of it, and here we are with a lot of HN/HS crosses (obviously fertile ones, too, starting with the earliest...or their SNPs wouldn't be in the the HS.)<br /><br />So if the HN and HS populations could not only interbreed but produce fertile HN/HS crosses...which the DNA evidence shows they did...what does this do to the concept of species? Any species, not just those two, and especially any species in our branch of biology? Before anyone says categorically that HS can't produce viable fertile offspring with another species...probably better to make the (highly unpopular and loudly proclaimed unethical) experiment. Or just say "We don't know."<br /><br />I find it amusing (in one of those bitter-taste ways) that HS in Northern European and North American countries was so quick to label sub-Saharan Africans as "anthropoid" and speculate on their similarity to Neanderthals and "primitive" characteristics...when it's we, the northern whites, who have more HN DNA than Africans do. Elizabeth Moonhttp://www.elizabethmoon.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-41242875921547646912014-01-02T15:42:27.420-05:002014-01-02T15:42:27.420-05:00Obviously the Neanderthal gene flow in my ancestry...Obviously the Neanderthal gene flow in my ancestry happened before they disappeared, so just having their genes live on in so many humans is clearly not a case against an extinction story. I rambled long enough in the post already which prevented more discussion like this, but man, this question's difficult isn't it!?Holly Dunsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05260104967932801186noreply@blogger.com