tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post8911505993114563580..comments2024-02-29T03:57:00.088-05:00Comments on The Mermaid's Tale: Heckling HaeckelAnne Buchananhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09212151396672651221noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-34304500714048056432009-08-12T21:41:57.641-04:002009-08-12T21:41:57.641-04:00One might always be able to find antecedents for a...One might always be able to find antecedents for any idea, just as every species has biological antecedents. We all, in any culture, bear the trace of our antecedents. Clearly anti-semitism was widespread in the 19th century, but so was (for example) slavery. Not everyone who came after accepted that. Our forebears were not monomorphic, either, and whether we accept an ancestral view or not cannot be blamed on them. <br /><br />There were non-racist people in 19th century Germany, but the Nazis didn't take ideas from them. There are many reasons why. But as to nasty elitist views, why not blame the Nazis on Plato if we need to find a source?<br /><br />The bottom line for me is that we have to sort through the influences we know of and make our own decisions, admittedly in the context in which we find ourselves, which places limits and constraints. <br /><br />I can't blame my parents for my faults (except the inherited ones). We're each responsible for what we do, when it comes to the kinds of things in this conversation.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-18914604287696442412009-08-12T11:15:09.032-04:002009-08-12T11:15:09.032-04:00The original post says,
the idea that Haeckel and ...The original post says,<br /><i>the idea that Haeckel and Darwin were responsible for the Holocaust is not a new one. </i><br /> <br />The idea that Social Darwinism has a bad influence on morality actually preceded Nazism -- William Jennings Bryan believed that Social Darwinism was a contributing cause of WW 1.<br /> <br /><i>Bronn had apparently been thinking along similar lines to Darwin, except that he viewed evolution as a march toward perfection, a view that he liberally injected into his translation.</i><br /> <br />The goal of eugenics need not be "perfection" -- the goal could just be "improvement." So Bronn's belief in evolutionary perfectionism -- assuming that Darwin did not believe in evolutionary perfectionism -- did not necessarily affect Darwin's influence on Nazi eugenics. <br /> <br /><i>But Haeckel died in 1919, before the Nazis assumed control </i><br /> <br /> It is strange to use that fact to downplay Haeckel's influence on the Nazis.<br /> <br /><i>Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection was adopted and propelled energetically by Haeckel who had ideas about evolution as a kind of progressive phenomenon </i><br /> <br />Isn't evolution generally "progressive"?<br /> <br /><i>What is now Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory was once the Eugenics Office. </i><br /> <br />It is noteworthy that the Eugenics Record Office merged with the oddly named Station for Experimental Evolution in 1920 to form the Carnegie Institution's Dept. of Genetics.<br /> <br />Also, contrary to what appears to be a widespread assumption, Nazi anti-Semitism was not a true eugenics program, because the Nazis targeted Jews who were especially fit -- physically and/or mentally -- as well as unfit Jews. In fact, one of the first things that the Nazis did after coming to power was to fire the highly mentally-fit Jews who were professionals and managers in the civil service. The main contribution of eugenics to Nazi anti-Semitism was to create the idea that it was morally OK to get rid of undesirables. <br /> <br />My response to the <a href="http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.1000162#pbio.1000162-Gliboff1" rel="nofollow">book review</a> is in <a href="http://im-from-missouri.blogspot.com/2009/07/ernst-haeckel-and-darwins-influence-on.html" rel="nofollow">this blog article</a>.Larry Fafarmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01840916980486608228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-35056653591892324642009-08-10T20:17:09.681-04:002009-08-10T20:17:09.681-04:00Anebo, indeed, no need to expect logical rigor fro...Anebo, indeed, no need to expect logical rigor from a psychopath. We don't argue that Hitler himself or many of his political henchmen knew or cared much about what a geneticist might think. However, Baur et al., to whom we refer, clearly noted the high level of performance of Jews, and that the Jews were right up there almost at the highest human level, that of the Aryans. So when Hitler described Jews as being just after the Germans, this was an accurate reflection of the human genetic 'theory' of the time and place. <br /><br />And, Hitler's crew did recruit, quote, use and reward scientists who justified or went along with the Nazi party line.Anne Buchananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09212151396672651221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-58430945495939466472009-08-10T20:05:10.604-04:002009-08-10T20:05:10.604-04:00There are passages in Hitler's Table Talk (a m...There are passages in Hitler's Table Talk (a more reliable guide to his own beliefs than Mein Kampf), which denigrate Jews as sub-human. There are others which reveal that he feared Jews as the natural competitor to the Aryans which suggests that they were highest on the evolutionary scale after the Germans themselves. You can't expect logical rigor in views that, after, all, had their genesis in psychopathology.Anebohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05865020806337781472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-77505588981788713382009-08-10T18:46:27.532-04:002009-08-10T18:46:27.532-04:00Thanks for the hat-tip! Nice post yourself, over ...Thanks for the hat-tip! Nice post yourself, over on Panda's Thumb.Anne Buchananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09212151396672651221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-37618944893252410782009-08-10T18:01:15.941-04:002009-08-10T18:01:15.941-04:00Since Blogspot has a thing about accepting trackba...Since Blogspot has a thing about accepting trackbacks, I hat-tipped you <a href="http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2009/08/darwin-hitler-n.html" rel="nofollow">on Panda's Thumb</a>. Thanks!RBHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13562135000111792590noreply@blogger.com