tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post3871548411922029794..comments2024-02-29T03:57:00.088-05:00Comments on The Mermaid's Tale: The evolutionary abattoir, or Getting to the meat of the subjectAnne Buchananhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09212151396672651221noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-11048417453189092802010-09-27T08:56:26.157-04:002010-09-27T08:56:26.157-04:00Anyway, whether or not a being is sentient should ...Anyway, whether or not a being is sentient should be irrelevant to its "rights".Texbrithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07375489043245888060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-1283915916551660462010-09-23T07:06:21.301-04:002010-09-23T07:06:21.301-04:00I actually disagree, and think your response, Aeol...I actually disagree, and think your response, Aeolus, is rather ethnocentric. As far as we know, plants have no 'consciousnes', and I and perhaps words like 'desires' or 'feelings' are too anthropomorphic, but you are assuming only our form of consciousness deserves consideration, as McMahan seems to say.<br /><br />That doesn't imply that plants have no sense of self-awareness of some form we can't imagine. It is absolutely accurate to say that cells respond to the outside world, to maintain homeostasis (that is, to persist in staying alive).<br /><br />One might say that life evolved through universal predation, and we can't really avoid eating other organisms that themselves evolved to persist. I happen to eat meat, and only hope that the victim suffered no fear or pain, and I try to eat animals that were treated humanely during their lives. And I also eat carrots!<br /><br />Your idea about the excess children is of course an old one, and was what Jonathan Swift suggested in his 'Modest proposal'.<br /><br />Bottom line for each person has to be his or her personal take on what is right to do, and what could be avoided in a better world.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-81928196509359943622010-09-22T22:48:43.433-04:002010-09-22T22:48:43.433-04:00"And for that matter, who says carrots like t..."And for that matter, who says carrots like to be pulled up from the ground where they're just motoring along minding their own business, and then skinned and eaten (or boiled) alive."<br /><br />Only someone lacking both common sense and an elementary science education would imagine that plants have desires or feelings. So I'll assume you're just pulling our collective leg. (The line about individual cells "struggl[ing] to stay alive" gives the joke away.) But the comments in the NYT following McMahan's essay show that a lot of people out there really are that foolish.<br /><br />If it is the case, as Ken Weiss suggests, that giving creatures a humane life and a quick death justifies meat eating, I modestly propose that we help reduce the number of unwanted children in underdeveloped countries by importing them, fattening them up, and then consuming them at dinner parties. And if anyone objects to eating rational beings, let her stick to eating the severely mentally handicapped among the unwanted, of which there are many. Bon appetit!Aeolushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15772583359516799143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-54432907117414238612010-09-21T16:19:41.788-04:002010-09-21T16:19:41.788-04:00Does that mean you think potatoes like being rippe...Does that mean you think potatoes like being ripped up, scraped with a peeler by some oblivious army Private, quartered and boiled? Or baked (even if eaten with delicious sour cream and bacobits)?Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-1207940393205794472010-09-21T15:46:49.208-04:002010-09-21T15:46:49.208-04:00I've become a Stage 3 Vegan: only eating plant...I've become a Stage 3 Vegan: only eating plants that don't cast shadows.Texbrithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07375489043245888060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-83849418310117477852010-09-21T11:47:54.638-04:002010-09-21T11:47:54.638-04:00There are a lot of practical issues, I agree, Jenn...There are a lot of practical issues, I agree, Jennifer. And yes about factory farmed animals. <br /><br />As for the carrots, thanks to Ellen Q for this absolutely pertinent video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmK0bZl4ILMAnne Buchananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09212151396672651221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-31451465478371455822010-09-21T11:40:39.264-04:002010-09-21T11:40:39.264-04:00with the emphasis on 'humanely raised'. A...with the emphasis on 'humanely raised'. Also, if we decided to all not eat meat forever after, what would we do with all the cattle, the chickens, the dairy animals, etc? Do we just allow them all to reproduce at will so that they overpopulate and starve to death? Do we sterilize them so they aren't allowed to reproduce and quietly die out? Do we allow ourselves one last feast after slaughtering the herds so that we don't need to deal with the species that humans have developed simply to help feed ourselves? What happens to the deer herds when they are left unchecked? Many of the animals raised for food in the 'factory farms' are not living lovely or healthy lives, either. I'm not sure why anyone would want to eat factory farmed animals, though, because they are not healthy animals, and how can eating an unhealthy animal be good for you?<br /><br />And I agree about those carrots not wanting to be pulled up.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10781510687154219618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-48913655529585117822010-09-21T07:33:12.101-04:002010-09-21T07:33:12.101-04:00Another point in regard to human carnivory. We gi...Another point in regard to human carnivory. We give life to chickens and cows only so that we can eat them. So they get the gift of life and a generally quick and mainly painless and fearless end. That alone is enough for many vegetarians to avoid eating meat, but like Darwin's feeling, if they're humanely raised then mainly we give them more good than the harm we do.<br /><br /><br />It's a little less clear with other similar situations, such as what we do to animals in research settings. We give mice etc life, too, but sometimes their lives aren't so idyllic.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.com