tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post1975986331464480536..comments2024-02-29T03:57:00.088-05:00Comments on The Mermaid's Tale: More on Pluto (if you're not already fed up with the Big Stories!)Anne Buchananhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09212151396672651221noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-8360242450206474002015-07-18T08:22:55.280-04:002015-07-18T08:22:55.280-04:00Well, your tale is science fiction and we've b...Well, your tale is science fiction and we've been saying the fiction industry ought to be funding this. In real life, any alien that could get here would have figured out warps or worm holes to do it, and would wonder why we spent our resources taking snaps of dead rocks rather than doing some actual science, so we would detect aliens early enough to varporize them, because after saying this the ETs would vaporize us (not because we were a threat, but because we were so stupid as not to be worth their intersteller conservation efforts).<br /><br />Anyway we certainly disagree about this, so let's give it a rest.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-9130594574210791182015-07-18T07:23:15.004-04:002015-07-18T07:23:15.004-04:00I can't help imagining our first meeting with ...I can't help imagining our first meeting with an alien species:<br /><br /><i>Did you explore your own solar system thoroughly?</i><br /><br />No, we thought it more important to work on the Big Questions: dark matter, multiverses, the meaning of life...<br /><br /><i>Did you solve any of the Big Questions?</i><br /><br />No.David Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13590531184544289491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-74732658531938356342015-07-17T22:49:51.151-04:002015-07-17T22:49:51.151-04:00It's the nature of our culture, media and ente...It's the nature of our culture, media and entertainment drive. This doesn't take away from the wonder of stargazing and imagining what it must be like to be on Pluto, or that Pluto has real existence, all happening without anybody being aware of it, until now.<br /><br />Real problems exist right here in our own neighborhoods on good ol' terra firma, so the public must be distracted with bread and circuses. If people like Trump have $10 billion, they and many in the actual entertainment industry could easily pay for these distractions. If this is a way to keep defense contractors funded without calling it 'defense', then that should be stopped so society can decide what legitimate defense research interests we have and make that a clear and legitimate part of DOD's budget. <br /><br />Still, there are many interesting questions in physics and cosmology that are far more central and profound than explaining some ice mountains and hideaway craters. Dark energy and matter, entanglement, gravity waves and the nature of gravity, multiverses or cosmic inflation, and so on--and these are just the fundamental issues I happen to have heard of.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-40194843858183462962015-07-17T22:39:54.859-04:002015-07-17T22:39:54.859-04:00I worked at a NASA research center for several yea...I worked at a NASA research center for several years (2001-2007). I wholeheartedly endorse the organization to be shut down. The 'mission' of NASA is entertainment along with various boondoggles to support worthless defense contractors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-39822954066898312432015-07-17T19:52:49.046-04:002015-07-17T19:52:49.046-04:00Another lossy compressed image was released today ...Another lossy compressed image was released today that is truly amazing. It shows a terrain type that was totally unexpected on Pluto, and Charon seems to harbor similar surprises.<br /><br />If you go to Nasa's Planetary Photojournal and compare these images to those of bodies of similar size, like Rhea, one of Saturn's moons, which is saturated with impact craters, you will appreciate why mouths are hanging open about these images. Terrain like that on Rhea is what I think most of the scientists expected of Pluto and Charon.Michael Finfer, MDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-21456226860209403112015-07-17T17:01:49.667-04:002015-07-17T17:01:49.667-04:00Time will tell. NASA has been having pep rallies ...Time will tell. NASA has been having pep rallies that match anything the 'news' media have been doing. Obviously, if some serious science that is more than ad hoc efforts to explain the Putonic particulars arise, then that will be good. The snark is intended, whether successful or not, in part to make what we write interesting to read, but yes, it is snarky. But any defender of this sort of project can be suspected of the same sort of bias, if opposite in direction. NASA scientists and spokesperson have been quoted by the media, so they aren't babes being misrepresented. So we'll all see what eventuates.<br /><br />And the answer to the genetic/evolution question is that we think we are clearly similar in our treatment, and the successes are not invalidated but it is not, by any means, just the news media that are hyping things--they get this, as in the case of NASA and the ESA, as much from the agencies and investigators. The news media are not very knowledgable as a rule, so they have to do it that way, I guess. It's a mutual reinforcement operation.<br /><br />But you may be right, and we'll just have see. We watch the same pictures with the same human interest in them as everyone else.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-66193548177004091812015-07-17T16:45:29.230-04:002015-07-17T16:45:29.230-04:00You are basing this on the first few days' com...You are basing this on the first few days' comments on three high-resolution pictures (and not even the best versions of those, but the compressed versions which were sent first). Don't you think you could hold off on the snark until more of the data is in, and the scientists have had time to absorb it?<br /><br />And don't go to the media, go to NASA. It's a cast-iron rule that if the media can possibly get science wrong, they will. Do the regular media distortions of gene therapy and evolutionary theory invalidate those disciplines? David Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13590531184544289491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-90635419363262893232015-07-17T12:08:38.312-04:002015-07-17T12:08:38.312-04:00The excitement and media publicity has many people...The excitement and media publicity has many people entranced, because the pictures and achievements are very noteworthy. The issue we raise is not that, but is what level of really new science this addresses. Is it akin to finding a new fossil that actually changes our understanding of phylogeny in a major way, calling for new understanding of adaptations? Or is it like another GWAS hit that, yes, identifies another gene that contributes to diabetes but in not much more than a cataloguing way? Or sequencing another human that shows we are all different? <br /><br />That Plutonics will involve some ad hoc explanatory efforts is not to be doubted, but the legitimate question is not just that, but whether it raises anything fundamental enough to have justified the mission or the flood of stories. The latter are being raised with great excitement, that may--may--be justified. But every thing any research does gets the same kind of treatment, and we raise questions about priority and relative importance (and that involves cost as well). Those who think it's all great science will have plenty of time to enjoy and think about it. Others may think there are deeper or more general questions that should take center stage.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-48501374175328289812015-07-17T09:41:41.590-04:002015-07-17T09:41:41.590-04:00To the extent that what you say turns out to be ac...To the extent that what you say turns out to be accurate, then there may be a problem for the theorists. Whether it is as profound as you seem to suggest you think it is, time will tell. Will it be something really new, or a challenge to model known geologic forces and factors? <br /><br />As is obvious, I have a mix of admiration and skepticism, because in my view these days it is almost impossible to separate the lobbying from the substance. I've seen too, too much of this in my own field. If I'm too skeptical, then there will be some really interesting scientific gains from this.<br /><br />Of course, this doesn't change my personal view about funding priorities, especially that I think a much more serious debate should take place, absent the vested interests, about what human problems should take precedence. Again, of course, this is all about personal views, but that is what politics is.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-48293258532597122582015-07-17T09:24:17.490-04:002015-07-17T09:24:17.490-04:00There are indeed structures that look,like impact ...There are indeed structures that look,like impact craters in that global view, but in that high resolution, close up view, there are none apparent, yet. You are looking at a lossy compressed version of the lossy compressed version that was received on the ground this week. The uncompressed version will not be down for a while. It will take 16 months to downlink all the data because the vast distance involved limits data transmission rates to 2 kb per second vs. several mb per second in today's typical internet connections. There may yet be impact craters in that image that may be too small to see in the current version.<br /><br />With that said, the geologists estimate the age of a planetary surface by counting impact craters. What was said that the upper limit of the age of the surface in that image is 100 million years. It may or may not be younger still, depending upon what can be seen in the full version of the image that is yet to be received. This is a big surprise. The theorists are now going to have to find a way to keep a small, icy body warm for at least 4 billion years without any tidal heating.<br /><br />The age estimate is for the area in that image. Other areas may be older or younger. It would be surprising indeed to find no impact craters anywhere in any of the images, and indeed they are there in other areas.Michael Finfer, MDnoreply@blogger.com