tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post8477311504366241800..comments2024-02-29T03:57:00.088-05:00Comments on The Mermaid's Tale: Australopithecus erotimanis, and the evolution of the human handAnne Buchananhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09212151396672651221noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-84395197292279327412011-11-06T12:50:43.359-05:002011-11-06T12:50:43.359-05:00There is no way to answer the questions directly, ...There is no way to answer the questions directly, which was our point. But things we currently take as 'plausible' because they fit our own experiences and world view and view of ourselves as a species, tend to determine, as much as actual evidence does, what we will accept.<br /><br />Darwin worried about 'correlation of characters' and males' nipples were an example. He didn't know about developmental genetics, so basically hypothesized that early mammals were hermaphrodites--or that there were ancestral functions in both sexes.<br /><br />So again, claims out of the blue are widely accepted, it seems strange to ask what the actual evidence is or whether such work should receive research funding: as we said in another post, if the idea is just story-telling, let Hollywood(or Bollywood) pay for the research!<br /><br />I could question the relevance of 'astrobiology', in particular because in the US it's paid for by NASA largely, I believe, because it is exotic and can help sell the cost of sending people to Mars. Studies to understand early earth life, which are part, perhaps a main part, of NASA's astrobiology funding, are completely legitimate but should be paid for by our NSF, not NASA.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-70424484699961785402011-11-06T11:16:22.882-05:002011-11-06T11:16:22.882-05:00Even as a layman, I can see your point ... er, wel...Even as a layman, I can see your point ... er, well. I wouldn't know how to test a "tool-hand" hypothesis - neither presence nor absence of tools would invalidate such a hypothesis, at least locally. If you _never_ see tools, the hypothesis shouldn't be raised in the first place, I guess. <br /><br />But I get questions:<br /><br />"How occasional use of pebbles led to higher reproductive success".<br /><br />Surely you mean higher differential reproductive success? I would think an early form of tool use would be "rock tossing" indeed, seeing the signs of predation on early hominins. <br /><br />[Hmm. I guess if you have problems with that being a vital tool, you could throw in the vital invention of a carrier sling I believe I've heard of. For freeing the hands when carrying children, food and ... rocks to toss. <br /><br />Another untestable hypothesis, for sure. But as long as we are telling just so stories.]<br /><br />"But females don't throw pebbles to gather berries!"<br /><br />Are we assuming drastic sexual dimorphism in basic anatomy? But men's hips got wider with women's, didn't it? How would a total functional separation work on a genetic and developmental level? <br /><br />Sometimes biologists are making claims out of the blue, it seems to me. Add to just so stories, and outsiders despair in making sense of it. :-/ (Perhaps I should add that I'm into astrobiology studies when I have the opportunity, and that does make sense. It's not total despair.)Torbjörn Larssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13304729731231255545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-62169716193647206902011-11-03T07:43:33.714-04:002011-11-03T07:43:33.714-04:00Well, this can only mean that the Brits are evolut...Well, this can only mean that the Brits are evolutionarily advanced, or at least perhaps manifest extensive atavistic traits. (Assuming they still toss)Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-85858795036314008162011-11-03T07:37:59.892-04:002011-11-03T07:37:59.892-04:00From a British point of view, the phrase 'rock...From a British point of view, the phrase 'rock tossing' seems particularly apt.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-73512697603870731402011-10-26T17:33:24.788-04:002011-10-26T17:33:24.788-04:00who nose?who nose?occamserasernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-25284806602213334202011-10-26T07:22:51.170-04:002011-10-26T07:22:51.170-04:00Also, Occam's, weren't you being careless ...Also, Occam's, weren't you being careless in your last explanation? How could the erotimanii have thumbed their noses at anybody? Did they even have projecting noses to thumb?Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-9859853027421914812011-10-25T18:25:00.998-04:002011-10-25T18:25:00.998-04:00We can dispense with all the technical terms that ...We can dispense with all the technical terms that only an expert such as you would know. To the likes of me, I thought about what I knew of the hand, and fingered our explanation that way. We first wondered about hitch-hiking, but in the absence of fossil hub-caps, we quickly moved on.<br /><br /> Thumbing at paranthropines is a bit dicey, however, because those bruits could eat the tiny A. erotimanines' lunch unless the latter actually did have nasty tools.<br /><br />Grasping at straws is what chimps do for termites, so the A. erotimanii have to be explained in more advanced terms! Still, you're on to the right level of explanation---this is, finally!, science at work!!Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-38762533766569738302011-10-25T17:57:53.712-04:002011-10-25T17:57:53.712-04:00Ah, the solution is in the hand
;)
Actually, you...Ah, the solution is in the hand <br />;)<br /><br />Actually, you must be onto something because the sediba hand isn't even dextrous in the derived human sense -- primitive gracile (=wimpy) thumb metacarpal; highly curved, ape-like pollical carpo-metacarpal joint; a capitate that's a dead ringer for afarensis; and an autapomorphically (not human-like!) hyper-elongated thumb, along with robust and curved proximal hand phalanges. <br /><br />Grasping at straws, perhaps? Thumbing their noses at paranthropines?occamserasernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-2467349088910126542011-10-25T08:31:18.652-04:002011-10-25T08:31:18.652-04:00The three Homo erectines had heard the rustling no...The three Homo erectines had heard the rustling noise, and gave each other quizzical and somewhat fearful glances. Ugmup crept slowly and stealthily up to the crest of the ridge. He turned his head sidewise and, brushing his (reddish) hair aside, allowed one eye to peer over the crest.<br /><br />That was all he needed, to see the amorous pair fondling each other lovingly at the mouth of the cave.<br /><br />"Two 'strokers'," he whispered, giving them the name they had acquired among the erectines for their habitual behavior.<br /><br />"Let me see 'em," said P'Qeeb as he, too, stole a glance. "Mmmm!" he said, "she look yummy!"<br /><br />"No!" said Ugmup sternly in a low and ominous voice, "She not for you. She too short -- I mean, too advanced for a semi-intelligent dolt like you."<br /><br />"What you mean?" barked Slthmch (articulate speech--or at least naming--not as yet having evolved).<br /><br />"Them might have tools," explained Ugmup, "even if me can't see any."<br /><br />"Mmmm, you probably right.... but man (so to speak), just take a look at her..."<br /><br />At this point, P'Qeeb's excitement got the better of him. Without the mental faculties required for self-control, he lept up to get a better view.<br /><br />But that gave a better view to the amorous erotimanii, who, startled, quickly uncoupled. Unfortunately, shocked by seeing P'Qeeb coming at them in his erectine state, they reflexively jerked backwards, and stumbled against the pile of crude stone pebbles they had been leaning against, and tripped.<br /><br />With piteous screams, they tumbled uncontrollably into the cave-mud. As they both slowly sank, locked in an eternal love-grip, the last thing that could be seen, oozing slowly out of sight, were her .....<br /><br />"....Hands!" gasped P'Qeeb.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-60229095794650187762011-10-25T07:29:42.788-04:002011-10-25T07:29:42.788-04:00Ken, you're such a master-debater.
And I thi...Ken, you're such a master-debater. <br /><br />And I think you may have just created a lustier niche than Auel's! I'm probably not the only one who would read more. Care to start a novel series?<br /><br />And, I'll say it as many times as I have to say it: A. sediba is important! (smile)Holly Dunsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05260104967932801186noreply@blogger.com