tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post688923194985872781..comments2024-02-29T03:57:00.088-05:00Comments on The Mermaid's Tale: The hen keeps laying (American education shortfalls, continued)Anne Buchananhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09212151396672651221noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-47182726373150793902011-01-31T12:16:07.399-05:002011-01-31T12:16:07.399-05:00Yes, and validates a bit why biological anthropolo...Yes, and validates a bit why biological anthropologists tend to be some of the most outspoken/well-known ambassadors of science!Holly Dunsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05260104967932801186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-43206948872021108552011-01-31T12:09:21.644-05:002011-01-31T12:09:21.644-05:00Yes, and it's the kind of thing that anthropol...Yes, and it's the kind of thing that anthropology, at least cultural anthropology, tries to understand.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-66597400314630967022011-01-31T11:44:11.203-05:002011-01-31T11:44:11.203-05:00Me too.
We're committed to science (and its ...Me too. <br /><br />We're committed to science (and its education) because we think it will improve the world, or at least ours. And others are committed to worshipping gods because they think that it will improve the world, or at least theirs. <br /><br />I guess this is one of those few parallels between science and religion.Holly Dunsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05260104967932801186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-16714467742263844022011-01-31T10:53:00.573-05:002011-01-31T10:53:00.573-05:00Yes, sure. I keep thinking of my own training in ...Yes, sure. I keep thinking of my own training in cultural anthropology that stressed that culture goes along on its own, and can't be directed from a member from the inside.<br /><br />And I think of how quickly communist countries turned capitalist (or even, as in Russia) deeply religious, despite 75 years of immersion in propaganda.<br /><br />And things like that. Your and our lives are committed to education, but what that means in cultural terms is, to me, less clear.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-4727812483046785552011-01-31T10:15:51.970-05:002011-01-31T10:15:51.970-05:00I was just offering yet another angle. Is it one I...I was just offering yet another angle. Is it one I'm convinced of? Maybe. But my impetus for commenting was just to muse on another angle.Holly Dunsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05260104967932801186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-80775488424356959382011-01-31T10:01:56.466-05:002011-01-31T10:01:56.466-05:00I don't quibble with that view, though I am le...I don't quibble with that view, though I am less convinced than you are that this is about or could be ameliorated by education. Somehow, I think this is culture going off on its own, for reasons nobody really understands.<br /><br />After all, the same information is available here as in England, where far fewer get a university education, ordinary schools aren't that great, and there is an Established church. Yet evolution sticks and the church is losing members rapidly. Why?<br /><br />Anyway, I'm all for upping the quality of education in science!Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-44643347235329999982011-01-31T09:47:56.798-05:002011-01-31T09:47:56.798-05:00"We could have community peace if scientists ..."We could have community peace if scientists would just give up their views, too!"<br /><br />I don't mean that they even have to give up creationist views... I mean that learning about evolution, even if it's still not accepted, will at least help people see how its concepts are used and abused and misinterpreted ... and to help people to at least try on the goggles of "other" belief systems... which we hope leads to greater peace when we do it in any comparative cultures class, right?<br /><br />There are so many out there who are only "fundamental" because that's all they know. <br /><br />This is MY detached anthropological view :)Holly Dunsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05260104967932801186noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-79920645878938047152011-01-31T09:35:02.488-05:002011-01-31T09:35:02.488-05:00Well, a more detached anthropological view would s...Well, a more detached anthropological view would say I think that science is our cultural matrix (tribal totem?) and we want schools to be used to acculturate people to our way of thinking. If you believe in mysticism (at least when it comes to life or your own life), then you want schools to inculcate religion rather than science in this regard.<br /><br />We couch it in terms of wanting schools to teach what's true, not what's not true (as we see it by our evidentiary criterion).<br /><br />I agree personally, but how is this different from any government or society wanting schools to acculturate to the prevailing or politically dominant norms? We could have community peace if scientists would just give up their views, too!<br /><br />Also, while I agree with you personally, I don't see any evidence that lack of good school teaching is limiting evolutionary biology's progress. Or, maybe, it's limiting it in the sense that we have to get graduate students largely from other countries. <br /><br />So, while I deplore the situation for the reasons you state, and can't understand how fundamentalism of the kind we're discussing could still persist, it's if anything growing worldwide (in different religions) for whatever reason.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-40083333863823349272011-01-31T09:11:09.389-05:002011-01-31T09:11:09.389-05:00Nice angle, Ken.
The ramifications for an undered...Nice angle, Ken.<br /><br />The ramifications for an undereducated electorate on science and health policy aside...(which we've talked about here many times)...<br /><br />The education problem's much more than some people don't believe evolution, are stuck in a mythological mindset that science culture deems unacceptable, and we need to show them/ help them learn. <br /><br />It goes to the level of the interpersonal relationships of neighbors. <br /><br />Many of the people who don't like evolution also believe (in one way or another) that those who accept evolution can be "lost," "heathens," "hell-bound," even "evil" or at least "unChristian-like" which means they can be perceived as selfish, unfriendly, and all-around un-neighborly. <br /><br />To be perceived in this way by your community (let alone by large proportions of your society) isn't exactly ideal. <br /><br />Maybe trying to fix k-12 biology is not an attempt to stoke the flames of a culture war, but instead a strategy of science-minded folks to achieve greater community peace.Holly Dunsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05260104967932801186noreply@blogger.com