tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post1822471046878153199..comments2024-02-29T03:57:00.088-05:00Comments on The Mermaid's Tale: The Fierce Non-ControversyAnne Buchananhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09212151396672651221noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-76461852579905679982010-04-22T07:10:58.861-04:002010-04-22T07:10:58.861-04:00The DNA could be extracted and completely sequence...The DNA could be extracted and completely sequenced, and much could be inferred--such as actual, relative to classificatory or cultural, kinship relationships within and among villages.<br /><br />But that might be rather useless now because of loss of context. Napoleon Chagnon is still with us, but the DNA-sample records would make it problematic to identify who is who relative to cultural aspects.<br /><br />Neel was right decades ago that comparable data would be almost, or even literally impossible to collect again, anywhere in the world. In any case, the importance of the questions relative to other kinds of data, and the cost, would probably make it not really worth attempting, interesting as it might be in many ways.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-1528642901520394572010-04-22T06:57:08.940-04:002010-04-22T06:57:08.940-04:00And I would just add that the 'uncle' issu...And I would just add that the 'uncle' issue is certainly a legitimate one, and it's possible in theory that old samples would be useful in searches for tissue matches and so on, but that that's a pretty unlikely scenario with anthropological samples like the Yanomama bloods.Anne Buchananhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09212151396672651221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-18459546203968990972010-04-22T05:46:36.802-04:002010-04-22T05:46:36.802-04:00No, it was not the raccoon that was drunk, as I re...No, it was not the raccoon that was drunk, as I remember you telling it, but that's beyond the scope of this blog.<br /><br />The 'uncle' issue is certainly legitimate, in the same sense of limited liability in other contexts, and I agree up to a point.<br /><br />Here, the IDs of the individuals can't be matched to the samples by any living scientist, and some of the sampled Yanomami are still alive, one of whom speaks in a film requesting return of samples.<br /><br />Also, things are a bit different in a culture of that type that works more by kin group or village headman-based decision-making etc. It may be hard to recognize from our individual-based society, and it may be different in the Khoisan--you would know, but I wouldn't.<br /><br />Finally, there is the general ethics issue about power differentials, and here I'd have to say that ethical views become more subjective. Of course, once legal challenges about the samples had been raised, such things all became moot because nobody wanted a big legal to-do over this, which would be to nobody's credit.<br /><br />I would like to say again, however, that I think there was nothing whatever devious or unethical in the collection and use of these samples. The charges about the ethics of the biomedical studies in the Yanomami are totally groundless and as without foundation as your denying the raccoon-shooting episodes in your back-porch history.Ken Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-39754938463757787532010-04-21T14:23:59.491-04:002010-04-21T14:23:59.491-04:00Well, Henry, what you say is true. I know of a fe...Well, Henry, what you say is true. I know of a few cases where scientists did profit from such sample collection without adequate consent. But there's no doubt that universities are too risk averse to put up much resistance to demogoguic opposition. On the other hand, Tuskegee did happen.<br /><br />In all of the anthropological cases I'm aware of, while professors built their careers on the backs, so to speak, of their study populations, this isn't the same as profiteering, and nobody got hurt by it that I know of. Accusations of misuse are, to my knowledge, scurrilous.<br /><br />Ryk (may that great guy rest in peace!) and I talked about a return of Yanomami samples. While I think there was absolutely nothing unethical about their original collection, which was captured on film as clearly voluntary and well paid for, I do think that when people want them back they should get them, and I have to say that I don't think they should have to give a reason. <br /><br />I just try to put myself in their position. I'm no where nearly the libertarian that you are, and I admit that I've never gone out raccoon hunting (firing from a drunken posture on the back porch), but even to my liberal eyes, the balance between legitimate subject protection and bureaucratic overkill is hard to maintain. And sometimes it really is enough to turn a person at least into a Republican!<br /><br />Finally, I thought that ol' Rykiwoo had sent back the Canadian samples, but maybe he passed away first.<br /><br />KenKen Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02049713123559138421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1812431336777691886.post-65965915822503053592010-04-21T13:08:11.982-04:002010-04-21T13:08:11.982-04:00I think this is hilarious but I realize that I don...I think this is hilarious but I realize that I don't have to pay the electric bills for that freezer. Ryk Ward was in the same situation with specimens from some groups in the Pacific Northwest: they demanded the return of specimens, Ryk agreed, but no one would accept them back. Last I heard they were still at Oxford.<br /><br />The real issue is to understand how the holier-than-thou huckster niche got established in our universities and how it is maintained. Unprincipled go-with-the-flow administrators and faculty are at fault: hard to blame it on anything else. Your story is funny but pales in comparison to the outrages of IRB culture.<br /><br />HenryHenry Harpendingnoreply@blogger.com